FM15 Coaching Qualifications and Previous Experience
#1
07-11-2014, 09:44 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2014, 09:46 PM by Soulfusion.)
Many of you may be aware of concerns I have about the effect on LLM Saves now that FM15 allows us to define our own 'Manager Profile'. The theory is quite realistic; after all I am sure many of us have pitched up at lower league clubs with no other staff and our PA concerned that no one is coaching the players. In real life that job would fall to the Manager, at least until a coach was employed.

The way this has been implemented though will make a realistic interpretation for LLM Saves difficult.

The past playing experience options are:
'Sunday League Footballer'
'Semi-Professional Footballer'
'Professional Footballer (Regional)'
'Professional Footballer (National)'
'International Footballer'
(Automatic is no longer available)

The Coaching Qualifications available are:
'None'
'National C'
'National B'
'National A'
'Continental C'
'Continental B'
'Continental A'
'Continental Pro'

Whilst you can select your own combination of past experience and qualification the game will also provide a 'recommendation' for the experience and qualification based on the club you have selected to manage. Would you be tempted to accept it?

I have done some research with different leagues today and the results are quite interesting. The usual suspect leagues with 0.5 or 1* reputation will be prepared to offer a job to a 'National C' 'Sunday League Footballer' manager but if you are wanting to start in a higher reputation league, things might get a little more difficult for a long term career. You will, I am sure, get the club you have selected with Paco but if things don't start well and you suffer an early sacking it might be difficult to get another job and if you like to start unemployed forget it. This will lead to a number of LLM Saves becoming frustrated and binned.

The recommendation for a predicted to be relegated side in the 2nd tier of Hungary (reputation 1.5*) for example (but typical of most 1.5* leagues) is 'Continental C' badge with 'Professional (Regional)' experience.

So the question that needs answering is will it still be LLM to assume higher qualifications and better past experience in order to start a career in a 1.5* reputation league?
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#2
07-11-2014, 09:51 PM
I think perhaps only the qualification recommendation should be accepted, the guideline for the past rep staying the same.

Just my thoughts.

Also, might be worth waiting until someone ends up needing to interview for roles after a few sackings *cough* to see how much they help the situation.
(15-02-2018, 10:50 PM)Rodderas Wrote: Maybe this upset the team? Fucked if I know.



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#3
07-11-2014, 09:54 PM
Steve, did you factor Manager Nationality into your research? For example, A relatively unknown Eastern European manager rocking up in England, or vice versa
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#4
07-11-2014, 10:00 PM
(07-11-2014, 09:54 PM)Walks Wrote: Steve, did you factor Manager Nationality into your research? For example, A relatively unknown Eastern European manager rocking up in England, or vice versa

Yes I did mean to mention that. My profile was exclusively an English manager.

I am looking for guidance because I don't want to start a long term game with initial restrictions to UK and Ireland, Scandinavia, Portugal or Belgium.
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#5
07-11-2014, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2014, 10:52 PM by SackedLlaMa.)
When I got the demo, I wanted to test this very problem.

To test I started as a Sunday League Footballer with no coaching licenses, Norwegian nationality, started unemployed and still had no real problem getting a job in Norway, England or N.Ireland (only ones I've managed to test yet). I also was offered an interview with Havant & Waterlooville (or whatever the hell they're called), a team predicted to finish 3rd and who sacked their manager after a 'disappointing' start to the league (10th place after 10-11 games). Since that last one was part of my first 'real' save on FM15 (full game, not demo) I didn't accept the interview because I thought that with my experience and skills it seemed unrealistic that a club with such high ambitions would even consider me.

I'm not sure what the rep of these leagues are, but at least I had no problem getting a job despite starting unemployed, and I had no problem getting a job abroad despite being Norwegian.

The second thing I wanna point out is that you can, immediately, start studying for a license, and I would guess you could study for a license when you're unemployed (seems plausible at least, having a lot of time on your hands). Also, when I got a job in Norway (demo version by the way), for a relatively financially weak, newly promoted team, the board actually offered to pay for my coaching class. I would think that if you spend time getting coaching licenses when you have the opportunity, it should get easier to get a job later on in the event of a sacking, although I haven't been able to test this yet. At least, if you're sacked, you're not stuck doing nothing and not getting any opportunities to qualify for a new job. You can study and I assume that would improve your chances later on.

This is the most realistic manager creation thingy SI have provided us with so far and in my opinion it wouldn't be realistic at all to give myself 'higher qualifications' in any circumstance. But I am more than willing to discuss it as I'm not saying I'm right about this. It's just how I see it right now with very limited playing time.


Edit: Firing up FM15 now to do some testing in some 2 star rep leagues.
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#6
07-11-2014, 11:41 PM
(07-11-2014, 09:54 PM)Walks Wrote: Steve, did you factor Manager Nationality into your research? For example, A relatively unknown Eastern European manager rocking up in England, or vice versa

I've set up a Serbian, French and Icelandic profile to go with my English one and there does not seem to be any change in the suggested recommendations regardless of nationality in their respective leagues. As the League reputation increases so does the suggested recommendations.

I think we will have to start with either no badge or National C with Sunday League or Semi Pro experience and see where that takes us. Presumably if you get a job and can keep it you can increase your reputation and qualification in time. Might prevent a lot of job hopping in the future.

Might still start unemployed in a 1.5* reputation league and see how long it takes to get a job.

Ole did you find that your coaching ratings as a no badge Sunday league footballer make you the worst coach at the club?
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#7
08-11-2014, 12:02 AM
(07-11-2014, 11:41 PM)Soulfusion Wrote: Ole did you find that your coaching ratings as a no badge Sunday league footballer make you the worst coach at the club?

I can confirm that if you start this way you are almost certainly going to be the worst coach at your club. Starting in a bottom league Swedish team I was the worst coach there. Admittedly I weighted my manager profile to give me more points for the suited manager or whatever it is called (all of the staff stats on the right hand side of the screen like adaptability and determination). Because of this I had all 1s for coaching stats except for working with youngsters where I spent my extra 2 points. So unless you weight your character towards the 'tracksuit manager' side you are likely to be the worst coach there, yes. Even then, you would probably be close to the worst and would have almost no stats for useful things like motivating or determination.
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#8
08-11-2014, 12:10 AM
I went with Sunday League footballer and National C License. Sunday League is a pretty accurate description of my footballing talent (at best) and I feel it would be unrealistic to be given a job with no coaching qualification so I went for the lowest.
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#9
08-11-2014, 12:53 AM
(08-11-2014, 12:02 AM)CountArach Wrote:
(07-11-2014, 11:41 PM)Soulfusion Wrote: Ole did you find that your coaching ratings as a no badge Sunday league footballer make you the worst coach at the club?

I can confirm that if you start this way you are almost certainly going to be the worst coach at your club. Starting in a bottom league Swedish team I was the worst coach there. Admittedly I weighted my manager profile to give me more points for the suited manager or whatever it is called (all of the staff stats on the right hand side of the screen like adaptability and determination). Because of this I had all 1s for coaching stats except for working with youngsters where I spent my extra 2 points. So unless you weight your character towards the 'tracksuit manager' side you are likely to be the worst coach there, yes. Even then, you would probably be close to the worst and would have almost no stats for useful things like motivating or determination.

Sorry, Soul, didn't see your question until now, but Count pretty much sums it up. It's all about what type of manager you want to be; if you decide to be a 'on the training ground everyday' type, you get more points and can be a better coach. Focusing most points in one or two categories will, at least at this level, make you a decent coach for most lower league sides I would think as most coaches down there usually are average to good in one or two categories. So there's definitely a possibility to be a decent coach to start with even without any coaching badges.

Update on my testing:

Started unemployed, from Norway, Sunday league footballer with no badges. Put all my points on the ... 'not coaching type' (the right side, the suit kind of guy) and loaded Brazil (3rd div = 2.5 stars) and Holland (Jupiler league, also 2.5 stars). Started the save in Brazil, december 2013. Didn't get any interviews in Brazil after 10 months of holidaying, but when the Jupiler league got underway, I had two interviews about 10 games into the season, one unsuccessful and one successful.

So you can in fact get a job in a 2.5 star league with sunday league footballer experience and no badges, despite being a foreigner. Maybe you're limited to your 'home continent', but I haven't seen a lot of available jobs in Brazil anyway, so I can't say for sure.
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Currently mismanaging: Newington Youth
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#10
08-11-2014, 02:11 AM
Yes, but what happens when you're sacked?

The horrific memories of third division Portugal come flooding back to me..

Currently managing: Kazincbarcika Sports Club, Hungarian Division I
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#11
08-11-2014, 10:00 AM
I'm sure JD will tell us soon enough.
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#12
08-11-2014, 10:20 AM
Mrgreen
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#13
08-11-2014, 10:28 AM
Nationality has very little impact on employability, when considering job applications within LLM people will have to pro-actively take a realistic approach to where they apply rather than have the game prevent an unknown Englishman being offered a job in the Brazilian 3rd division.

As for getting a job after being sacked that has also changed for this version, for the user it will be easier to get a job, even after multiple sackings. Once again it is left top the user to decide if the job they have been offered is realistic, just because the game allows you to get a job 4000 miles away it doesn't mean it's realistic.
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#14
14-11-2014, 05:08 PM
The dilemma I'm in currently is that none of the clubs have enough money to support me training for a higher coaching qualification. Why didn't SI think to use the money YOU earn at the club to finance the training? Give your earnings some purpose for once.
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#15
14-11-2014, 05:10 PM
Agreed. But then you open the floodgates silly bastards who reckon you should be able to buy houses and shit with your wages, as if that's anything to do with football management. Lol
(15-02-2018, 10:50 PM)Rodderas Wrote: Maybe this upset the team? Fucked if I know.



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#16
14-11-2014, 05:32 PM
A The Sims/FM crossover? Awesome!!!
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Currently mismanaging: Newington Youth
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#17
14-11-2014, 06:25 PM
FIFA Manager went down a similar route.
(15-02-2018, 10:50 PM)Rodderas Wrote: Maybe this upset the team? Fucked if I know.



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#18
24-11-2014, 05:13 PM
Is there a preference on the any of the options in this thread on what is acceptable for a Llama save or are all ok to use?

I'm thinking of going Sunday League with no badges.
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#19
24-11-2014, 05:16 PM
I'm going Sunday League with no badges too and in my opinion that's where one should start when playing by the LLM guidelines (although there's no official guideline for this yet).
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Currently mismanaging: Newington Youth
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#20
24-11-2014, 05:23 PM
I go with Sunday league and whatever the recommended badge is.
(15-02-2018, 10:50 PM)Rodderas Wrote: Maybe this upset the team? Fucked if I know.



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